Podcast: Sustainability is spelled I-o-T, argues Vodafone

There are many claimed benefits for the Internet of Things (IoT), and underpinning plenty of them is Environmental Sustainability. But are smart metering, remote monitoring, connected transport and waste management really building a sustainable future? Is it ‘greenwashing’ or are mobile networks genuinely enabling greener lives for everyone? In the latest Trending Tech podcast Eric Brenneis, CEO of Vodafone IoT, argues that promoting IoT-enabled services isn’t just good for his networks’ image, it's good for the planet. Plus Amy Cameron, research director at analysts, STL Partners tells Jeremy Cowan, that green agendas are even helping companies retain staff. 
 

Transcript

Jeremy Cowan  00:05

Hi and Welcome to the latest Trending Tech Podcast on using the Internet of Things to create sustainable enterprises. My name’s Jeremy Cowan, I'm co-founder of the telecoms and tech sites, IoT-Now.com, VanillaPlus.com, and TheEE.ai, which covers as the name implies, artificial intelligence for The Evolving Enterprise. And together these websites are our podcast sponsors today. Thank you for joining today's sometimes serious, sometimes light-hearted look at digital transformation for enterprises.

Okay, if we were to play a word association game, I'm guessing that the first industries you'd mention, if I said environmental sustainability, probably wouldn't be telecoms or IoT, the Internet of Things. Am I right? Of course, they're technology-led and to varying degrees, they're both disruptors. After all, the IoT is largely enabled by wireless communications to put in our hands huge quantities of data of a granular detail we've never seen before. You want to know where's the nearest available parking space? You got it! What's the humidity level in that wheat crop? Well, IoT can tell you in real time to five decimal places. When will the motor in this elevator fail? No worries, predictive analytics will notify the engineers months in advance. But if I rattle off a list of tier one telcos or IoT service providers, sustainability may not be uppermost in your mind. And today, we're going to address what we can do about that. One mobile operator that wants to change that is Vodafone and I am delighted to introduce you to our first guest today, Eric Brenneis, CEO of Vodafone IoT. Eric, welcome!

Eric Brenneis  02:05

Hello, Jeremy. Thanks and nice to see you.

Jeremy Cowan  02:08

Good to have you here. And to help you mark both Eric's and my homework, we're really pleased to bring you Amy Cameron, research director at the international analyst firm, STL Partners. Amy, it's good to have you here.

Amy Cameron  02:22

Hi, Jeremy. Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Cowan  02:24

I think you're UK based, aren't you, Amy? So, if it's your turn to be the British Prime Minister today, because it seems we're all getting a turn these days, can you keep the media on hold for half an hour?

Amy Cameron  02:36

Yes, I can. I can do that. I can hold myself up for half an hour. I'm sure the world will survive.

Jeremy Cowan  02:43

Great. Eric, I know you travel a lot. Where are you joining us from?

Eric Brenneis  02:46

I'm in Munich, Germany today, which is where I live.

Jeremy Cowan  02:49

Ah! Where better? Okay, we're going to leave politics behind. And later, we'll come to today's core subject, IoT’s role in ESG sustainability. It's a bit of a mouthful, isn't it, which is short for Environmental, Social and Corporate Governance. But before we get stuck into that, it's always good to check technology’s road ahead. So, let's take a look at two serious tech news stories that you guys have found for our listeners. And later, when we roam together across the savanna of sustainability, we will be in need of a cold drink and a bit of light relief in our closing section called What The Tech! Here we’ll explore a couple of recent tech news stories that amazed or amused us. Eric, what serious stuff have you found for us in the news?

Eric Brenneis  03:38

Yes, something really interesting is that a third of UK employees would actually leave their company over climate inaction. Which is actually, when you think about it, it's huge, because not every company is actually working in the environmental space. It's also about how much companies waste resources, and so on. And it basically just shows for us how important it is for companies to adopt Net Zero initiatives and policies, because, you know, employees are getting scars and scars and especially highly qualified ones. And the highly qualified employees are actually the ones for whom the climate action is most important. So, businesses basically don't get away any longer with avoiding sustainability initiatives. And it's actually their employees, not only their customers – that too or regulators in many cases – but it's also their employees, holding them accountable. And basically, that means that if, as a business you want to attract and retain top talent, you must absolutely see climate action as non-negotiable. And, in the context of IoT, that's obviously also a huge opportunity for IoT but we'll get to that later, how IoT can actually help companies improve their green activities. (https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/10/18/would-you-quit-your-job-over-climate-inaction-a-third-of-uk-employees-say-they-would )

Jeremy Cowan  05:07

Indeed, and I'll bet that this isn't a UK-only reaction. 

Eric Brenneis  05:10

Absolutely not. But real statistics that we found was actually for the UK. But we see this in every country, both with regards to how employees feel, and especially with regards to the products and services that companies demand from us in order to drive their green agenda forward.

Jeremy Cowan  05:29

Yeah, as you read on in that article, it says the sentiment was even stronger among 18 to 24 year-olds, with over half of Generation Z, saying they'd be willing to leave a company based on its Net Zero credentials. I shouldn't be surprised, but that is quite a, that is quite a statistic already, and probably only going to get stronger.

Eric Brenneis  05:50

Absolutely. We believe that's going to get stronger. We see that within Vodafone as well. You know, during employee satisfaction surveys, how important actually, the purpose of the company is, the green agenda, also diversity. That's getting more and more important for young people, not only young people, also everybody, which we think is actually a great thing.

Jeremy Cowan  06:15

Amy What did you make of this? 

Amy Cameron  06:17

Yeah, I mean, to be honest, I'm not surprised at all, because we have done some research, you know, looking in the telecoms industry. And look, it's obviously not serving that many people, but asking telecoms operators what their experience has been with their sustainability agendas. And there was an Australian operator that said, they saw a significant jump in their employee satisfaction and engagement, like in succession, after they announced some sort of climate policies that were very forward-facing. And, you know, I’ve heard a number of anecdotes like that. So, I'm not surprised, you know, employees are one of the key stakeholders that are driving forward this agenda, I think.

Jeremy Cowan  06:57

Definitely. Amy, which serious tech news story caught your attention, then?

Amy Cameron  07:03

Well, I cheated a little bit. It's not fully tech news. But it is a sustainability news. And actually, you know, going back to your earlier point, Jeremy, I took one from outside of the telecoms industry. And this is research by Bain and WWF that found that 15% of fashion, consumers are highly concerned about sustainability and consistently making purchasing choices that will enable them to have a lower environmental impact. And look, 15% is still a minority of consumers. But I think that the question that comes up time, and again, and I think we'll discuss it later today, is ‘Are people willing to pay for it?’ You know, how do you make the financial case for this? How do you make the business case for this? And so it's encouraging to see some research that is trying to quantify what consumers are willing to pay. 
 
And one of the interesting things in this research was showing the difference between what consumers say they will do and what they will actually do. And, you know, a lot of the time they won't actually spend their money in as sustainable way as they say that they want to. And part of the problem there is that it's really difficult to make that choice because the information isn't there. And that's true in the fashion industry. But it's true in telecoms as well. It's true in consumer IoT, it's true in enterprise IoT. It's really difficult to make this choice if you don't have any information about how to make this choice, what is the environmental impact or the social impact of the service that you're buying, the solution that you're buying? And so, I think the message whether it's the fashion industry, or the tech industry, is the same, is the onus is on the provider to try and help their customers make an informed decision. So, that's the one that I brought up today.

Jeremy Cowan  08:52

That’s fascinating. Eric, did you see this? 

Eric Brenneis  08:55

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we've seen that sustainability is a key decision criteria for consumers in basically every respect, not just the fashion industry, also when you come to food and, and other things. And the underlying technologies, which actually help identify what is green, are therefore becoming more important. So yes, absolutely. We see this trend as well.

Jeremy Cowan  09:22

I mean, 5,900 consumers questioned across seven countries is a proper survey. And on a website, I didn't know, Business Chief. So, thanks for all of that, Amy. And as with the office story Eric found, I think this trend is probably only going one way for the foreseeable future. So, the fashion industry and possibly fashion technologists willneed to pay attention to this. We'll post the links to the stories in the podcast transcript for anyone who wants to follow it up (https://businesschief.com/sustainability/consumer-demand-for-sustainable-fashion-on-rise-says-bain ) so you can have a look at the stories yourselves. Thank you both. 
 
This is now the core of today's podcasts, and I get to ask both of you really in detail about sustainability. Eric, can I start with you with a question about the definition; we've all been knocking around the phrase ‘IoT and sustainability’, like it was a well-used tennis ball. What exactly is the role of IoT in sustainable business?

Eric Brenneis  10:22

Yes. So, from an IoT point of view, there are several reasons why somebody will actually use an IoT connection, right? And one of the most classic cases is actually to achieve efficiencies, and also to achieve savings: whether it's waste management where you don't want to waste as much through and you measure that through IoT; whether it's fleet management, where ultimately, you save petrol; or whether you provide transparency about usage, especially important in today's time with gas shortages, for example, in gas metering, or electricity metering. So, IoT from the beginning has always been about providing more transparency about what's going on, in an electricity network, or at a consumer and in order to provide efficiency. 
 
 Now, there are a few other IoT applications as well, where basically, you make a product more user-friendly, for example, an e-reader, you know, where you automatically download books, which you could also argue, is also a more efficient way than getting a book printed. But overall, that's basically our definition of sustainable IoT. And there are actually now accepted ways of measuring the CO2, which IoT applications actually save. And we have measured that, for example, for our business with our customers last year. And the IoT applications we support saved 15.6 million tonnes (of CO2) in 2021, which is a huge number. And that's only increasing. 
 
 Finally, the good news is that it's not only about being green. So, when you take for example, smart metering, yes, it helps stainability because the transparency that it provides helps to save energy as well. But it also lowers the cost of utilities to offer services to customers, meter readers don't need to drive around to read the meters anymore for billing purposes, and so on. So, there are many benefits. But sustainability is always in the centre of these solutions.

Jeremy Cowan  12:44

Well, it’s a critical benefit at a time like this with the economic difficulties we're all facing. Amy, anything you'd add to that?

Amy Cameron  12:51

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think that there's a lot that IoT is doing already, but at the same time, I feel that for customers it can be difficult, you know. There are methodologies as you say, Eric, for understanding what is the benefit of the IoT solutionsthat they are delivering, but those are often not reported to a customer on a per usage, individual basis. And that makes it difficult for them to then measure the impact on their business and report on their own, you know, scope one, scope two, scope three. So, when we've been thinking about this at STL Partners, we've actually kind of got a way of understanding a sustainable solution. And this applies to IoT as much as anywhere else. But IoT is obviously a lot of the sustainable solutions that we're seeing in telecoms. 
 
 So step one, Basic, is the way that you are delivering this service. Is it low carbon? Are you powering your networks with renewable energy where you can? Are you thinking about the embedded carbon and the devices that are being deployed for this IoT solution? Then there's measuring that outcome for the customer. What is the outcome it's delivering? And are you reporting on it to the customer so that they can see it? And then I think the next one – and a lot of this is embedded already in IoT – but what is the behavioural change that you are driving in the customer? Are you changing, you know, not just automatically turning off lights, but maybe are you changing the way they are thinking about embedding sustainability in their organisation? And that's obviously like a higher step and we don't know exactly what it looks like. But that's a little bit of the methodology that we're thinking about in terms of sustainable IoT solutions.

Jeremy Cowan  14:38

I'm gonna stay with you, Amy, if I may, because although this next question is about the Vodafone report, their recent report, Fit for the Future, which is all about businesses, it came up with a startling conclusion and I'd love your sort of big picture view on it from STL. The report said that progress on sustainability is actually stalling. Eric, I'd love your view on this in a moment. But, Amy, what's your feeling on that? Is that a fair analysis?

Amy Cameron  15:05

I think that it, it probably is, to some degree a fair analysis. I hesitate a little bit, because I think that as a topic it's very front of mind. People are talking about it a lot more than they were a year ago. But I guess, you know, and I saw it in the report, it says organisations are not acting on it as much. And my interpretation of that, it'd be great to see if Eric's is the same, is that it's actually really difficult to move forward in many areas. So, if you think about scope one and scope two, where you have direct visibility over what's going on in your organisation and thinking about, you know, lowering your energy footprint, and using renewable energy, that’s something you have control over. But then working with your supply chain to reduce your scope three, is really, really challenging. And I think that we might have stalled because it's so difficult when it's outside of your organisation's control, and you're dependent on your partners in order to make that progress.

Jeremy Cowan  16:06

Eric, is progress stalling still?

Eric Brenneis  16:10

Well, yeah, actually, as we said, in general, it's stalling a little bit, even though the large trend over time, we believe, and I believe will 100% go into further sustainability actions. We also need to go down a level in granularity to really analyse what's going on. For example, since energy cost is so high now, whether you use gas or oil or electricity, many customers are actually focusing their sustainability activities on energy savings, because these energy savings help their sustainability agenda. But also it helps them to immediately save cost, which is very necessary in the economic crisis we're seeing at this moment. So, it's that customers are more selective on how they prioritise their sustainability projects. And at the moment, what we clearly see, it's about energy efficiency, that is the big theme. And other activities are actually pushed a little bit down in terms of priority, and I believe they will be picked up again when energy prices are down a little bit, or we're through the worst of the crisis.

Jeremy Cowan  17:22

Eric, when I looked through that report –we'll put a link to it in the transcript so that people can access it – the report seems to be saying that, correct me if I'm wrong, that sustainability is to some extent, competing for attention in your clients’ boardrooms with customer experience. Now, that's a really tough ask of your clients because, you know, obviously they've got customers to try and please. How do we ensure that it isn't a competition, that it's seen as symbiotic?

Eric Brenneis  17:56

Yeah, you're absolutely right. I think the trick is, and what successful companies have to achieve and many are achieving is that it's not either/or, it's not either sustainability or customer experience, they need to achieve both. And customer experience, obviously, is a focus for any company and a focus for any consumer when they make a buying decision. What's new, is that sustainability is now also one of the key decision criteria for many people when they decide on a product, and therefore the most successful companies actually managed to address both at once. And the good news is through the right technologies that can also be achieved. You know, I gave the example before how an IoT connection can both improve the customer experience and provide efficiency at the same time.

Jeremy Cowan  18:51

Amy, there's a challenge that is often made against companies that are active in this space, and it's a cynic’s view, but how do you respond to people who say that IoT service providers and others in the sector arejust ‘greenwashing’?

Amy Cameron  19:07

Well, I think that the best way to counter that is to be transparent on your methodology for saying how you are claiming your enablement effect. There are a lot of companies out there that are saying, you know, we help you reduce X tonnes of carbon in this way. But the reality is that very few companies actually publish the methodology that they are using to calculate that. And, although there are similar approaches going around, I feel that there is no standardisation around this. And this is one area where the industry really should be working together in order to come to an agreement. And yes, there's a lot of activity, you know, particularly in the EU in order to create these standards, but the best that you can do as an organisation to prove that you are not greenwashing is to show ‘This is how I have made that calculation for the positive impact that I have had’. And also to be honest about what your contribution is to that impact. Right?  We all know that any IoT service is collectively developed and provided by a number of parties working together; you have the application provider, you have whatever the platform provider, you have the device provider, you have the connectivity provider, everybody is partaking in that enablement. And you should be honest about okay, you know, I am the device provider, I am delivering this proportion of the benefit. And that's how I think companies can avoid claims that they’re greenwashing. 

Jeremy Cowan  20:44

Yeah. Eric, in the report, you've defined some businesses as being fit for the future. That's a great accolade, but how do you define Fit for the Future businesses?

Eric Brenneis  20:56

Yes. So, we have six specific characteristics by which we measure whether a business is Fit for the Future. Number one is these businesses have a positive attitude to change. Secondly, they are open to new technology. They actively plan for their technological futures. And they have a detailed strategy on all this. Finally, they are up to date with emerging trends, and they are adaptable. And our research clearly shows that businesses who manage all these characteristics or who have all these characteristics are actually much better able to manage unexpected challenges, such as crises or employee expectations, or customer demands, which involves that they are able to manage that much better than the rest.

Jeremy Cowan  21:47

Amy, if businesses are going to be collaborating to enhance sustainability, what kind of businesses should anyone wanting to do that be looking for? And how do they set about it?

Amy Cameron  22:01

You mean, in terms of what kind of partners should they be looking for?

Jeremy Cowan  22:04

Yeah, how do they identify the partners? 

Amy Cameron  22:06

Well, I mean, I think a good way of looking at them isyou can look at their credentials in terms of the commitments that they've made to sustainability already. And there are lots of indices, you know, whether that's the CDP, the Carbon Disclosure Project or others. There are ways to find out which companies are already trying to prioritise sustainability and lower their impact.
 
 I think the other is to get involved in regulatory or European-wide discussions, because there are many organisations there where you can get involved with your peers and have open conversations in terms of what's happening. And so, I think one interesting one to look at, which is maybe a little bit less often front of mind is an organisation like Greening of Streaming, which is bringing together companies from the content delivery networks, to the hardware providers and telecoms operators to think about how do we make video streaming more sustainable?

Jeremy Cowan  23:11

Okay, I have to confess my ignorance, I wasn't aware of them. The name again, Greening of Streaming. Okay, so we can Google that and find that. 

Amy Cameron  23:19

Yeah! 

Jeremy Cowan  23:22

Eric, looking at the market at the moment, one consistent problem comes up for industries of all kinds. And that's the skill shortage. And it clearly is impacting efforts to boost sustainability. How can users overcome skill shortage to achieve that boost?

Eric Brenneis  23:41

As we discussed before, actually, sustainability and a green agenda is very important for employees nowadays. So, just by putting sustainability in the centre of your purpose and activities, you will be more attractive for the right employees. And that's one way to overcome this skills shortage. And then, of course, developing a clear strategy for the green agenda, and investing into the right technologies will further help with that. So, these are the approaches in our view.

Jeremy Cowan  24:14

Quickly, Amy, anything you'd add on overcoming the skill shortage?

Amy Cameron  24:19

Well, it's more of a tangential piece in terms of, you know, building on what you were saying, Eric, in terms of demonstrating your commitment to sustainability. One of the things that we think at STL Partners really demonstrates that super clearly is whenthere are financial incentives for employees around this. So, as an organisation, can you demonstrate that for instance, employee bonuses are not only tied to a sales metric, but it is also tied to an environmental target. And I think that proves that you are kind of putting that front and centre for everybody in the organisation. So, I just thought I'd throw that out there as one way companies can demonstrate that.

Jeremy Cowan  24:58

That's good. Amy, I know this sounds radical. But some people are saying we need a new industrial revolution, if we're to ensure that ESG goals are set and met. Is that true? And is it going to hurt? 

Amy Cameron  25:14

Yeah, well, you know, I had I had a little bit of a think about this, is it an industrial revolution that we need? Or is it something else? And I think it's not that we need an industrial revolution, per se. I think what we need is different definitions of the words ‘cost’ and ‘efficiency’. Okay, cost is not just about how much money is involved, or how much money is involved now, but it's also about, you know, what is the cost to the planet that we're living on? What is the cost to the humans on this planet? And, you know, that cost may not materialise immediately, but it might materialise later. That might materialise, you know, in the most part now, because of regulations, or as we're talking about in terms of access to skills and the right employees that you need. But I think that when you think about cost and efficiency, people are thinking too much in pure dollar terms. And what we need is a revolution in those definitions, in my view.

Jeremy Cowan  26:19

Eric, they say, be careful what you wish for; these people who are wishing for a new industrial revolution. Are you one of them? Or do you take a miss view that we need better definitions? 

Eric Brenneis  26:30

Well, I think both, we definitely need better definitions. But I also believe we need the Green Revolution. It’s started to a certain extent, but it's by no means finished. And we can do so much more. Just take the energy crisis Europe is in at the moment, you know, the green revolution will actually help with all this. And it's not only good for the environment, it will also be good for the industry in Europe, and in the UK, as a whole. So, I'm actually a firm believer in this. 

Jeremy Cowan  27:08

Okay. And finally, Eric, what are the current and potential rewards for FFTF businesses, that are Fit for the Future? I mean, you've already talked a little bit about energy, what others should we be looking for?

Eric Brenneis  27:22

Yes, so the key rewards I actually that these Fit for the Future businesses, they constantly seek to use new technologies, in order to further enhance their products so that it better fits customer requirements. In order to drive the green agenda, we discussed that, and in order to outperform their competitors. And the biggest difference between the Fit for the Future companies and the not so Fit for the Future companies, if you allow me to put it this way, is that the not so Fit for the Future technologies actually, either rely on the technology they have already, or they don't have the resources, you know, to use new technologies. And, and that's a big distinction. 
 
 And then finally, of course, prioritising sustainability. And supporting the advances in sustainability through technology also means that the products will be more attractive for customers. So, it's a virtuous cycle of technology, leading to better products, leading to more sustainability, which will then mean more success in the market. And more success in the market means that these companies will then have more potential investment in order to further advance their technologies and sustainability. So, it's this virtuous cycle that we see these companies to be in.

Jeremy Cowan  28:53

That's encouraging. Well, we've come to the end of that. I'll get my knuckles wrapped if I run for any longer, though, I feel that we could discuss this for at least an hour. Thank you for that. Let’s unwind for a moment and see What The Tech has amused or amazed us lately in the world of Trending Tech. Amy, you go first, what have you seen?

Amy Cameron  29:15

Well, you know, I think that after debating the Green Revolution, or the new industrial revolution, I'm now putting forward a story which I think feeds very well into that, which is one about putting solar farms in space. This is something new, I learned it today while I was thinking about what would I bring up. But I think that you know, especially in the back of my mind is the story that came out in the UK not that long ago about people feeling like we were giving over too much land to solar farms on land, which, you know, they're really not taking up that much space. But beside the point, this seems like an opportunity to think about what is the innovation that's coming out there in technology, which can help us get to this future point where we're having a zero carbon impact on our world? So, I thought it was a great story, and I won't go into the technical detail of it. But there is a YouTube video if you want to find out more about the challenges and the technology.

Jeremy Cowan  30:18

And this was on Euro News?

Amy Cameron  30:20

Well, it is on Euro News, but the video actually is on Physics World (https://physicsworld.com/a/space-based-solar-power-could-beaming-sunlight-back-to-earth-meet-our-energy-needs/ ). I'm not a physicist. I don't know exactly how credible this is. But the physicists that they had on there definitely sounded like they knew what they were talking about. And the original story was talking about a programme run by the European Space Agency.

Jeremy Cowan  30:39

I'd like to see that actually. I saw the report on Euro News. Even for an arts graduate like me, it was quite light on detail about the energy wave that would be generated from 36,000 kilometers in space. But I have to say, I was intrigued that Airbus likened it to a 4G mobile antenna that concentrates the energy.

Amy Cameron  30:51

Exactly how that energy gets here is still one of the challenges, but you get a bit more detail on Physics World.

Eric Brenneis  31:05

Would there be a 36,000 kilometers long, high voltage cable into space? (Laughter)

Amy Cameron  31:13

It was definitely wireless transmission. 

Eric Brenneis  31:16

Okay.

Jeremy Cowan  31:18

It certainly whet my appetite. I'm looking forward to November, I think the ESA and Airbus are due to give more details then. Thanks, Amy. Eric, is there anything in the news that made you smile or perhaps just scratch your head? 

Eric Brenneis  31:48

Yeah, I recently read that New Zealand actually, in order to meet their sustainability targets and climate change goals are planning to tax the emissions from sheep, and cows like burps, dungs, urine, and so on because they have so many of these. And actually, obviously, they need technology in order to measure this, sensors, and then they are not just taking this money and spread it elsewhere. They will reinvest this money into the agriculture centre in order to incentivise farmers to be greener. And they plan to have a much more modern and greener agriculture because of this. And that's obviously a big opportunity. And, yeah, we're already positioning ourselves everywhere in the world to support such agricultural initiatives. We have a product called My Farm Web, for example, which measures critical parameters from farms, such as irrigation levels, or levels of food that is available to animals and so on. So very exciting. And that actually made me smile when I read these New Zealand plans. (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/12/new-zealand-plans-to-tax-emissions-from-livestock-burps-and-dung.html )

Jeremy Cowan  32:55

I love that. It took me also to a report with a subheading that the agricultural sector contributes 50% of New Zealand's gross emissions. I think just for clarity, that's gross as in total, not gross as in unpleasant. But that's another matter. (Laughter)

Eric Brenneis  33:11

Maybe both.

Jeremy Cowan  32:55

I don't know about you, but I found the CNBC article fascinating and frustrating. Fascinating because it really is taxing the polluter at source and fair play to I think that's Jacinda Ardern's government for their effort. But frustrating because I couldn't easily see how the NZ government will decide how much each is paid by each farmer for each cow. It also seemed to be taxing the farmer only to return funds to them later when they cut the emissions. But I may be missing the point and I need to go back and read it again. It intrigued me.

Eric Brenneis  33:52

Me too. Definitely.

Jeremy Cowan  33:45

Yeah. Amy, your thoughts on that?

Amy Cameron  33:55

Well, I mean, I think I think it sounds it sounds great. I just look forward to seeing how this is measured. But we all know that agriculture is definitely a big space where we can make a serious impact and that regulations are important. So, things coming together there. 

Jeremy Cowan  34:35

Anyway, everyone can let us know on LinkedIn what they think you can reach me at Jeremy Cowan on LinkedIn. Before we go, let me say a big thank you to both of you. First to Amy Cameron of STL Partners. Thanks, Amy.

Amy Cameron  34:54

Thanks for having me.

Jeremy Cowan  34:55

And how can people reach you for more information? 

Amy Cameron  34:58

Yeah, you can find me on LinkedIn, Amy Cameron, or you can email me amy.cameron@stlpartners.com . I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Jeremy Cowan  35:07

That'd be great. And thanks also to Eric Brenneis of Vodafone IoT. It's been a pleasure to have you with us, Eric.

Eric Brenneis  35:14

Thank you very much.

Jeremy Cowan  35:15

And where can listeners find you?

Eric Brenneis  35:17

Well, you can find me on LinkedIn as well. Erik Brenneis, or you can check the Vodafone IoT webpage, just Google Vodafone IoT, and you'll get right there.

Jeremy Cowan  35:29

Brilliant. And thank you too, of course, to our amazing audience all around the world. Don't forget, you can subscribe to the Trending Tech Podcast wherever you found us today. And I promised we'd give a shout out to anyone who gives us five stars on Apple Podcasts and leaves a review, because it spreads the word and helps new listeners join our growing global audience.

So, a big Trending Tech thank you this time to TelcoGeek, who described the podcast as "Amusing and accessible. An easy-to-understand take on the worlds of IoT and digital transformation with a bit of fun thrown in for good measure." Thanks, TelcoGeek.

And if you give us a good review at podcasts.apple.com (https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/digital-transformation-its-critical-but-not-all-serious/id1512942267 ) We could be giving you a shout out next time.

So, until the next podcast, keep safe. Keep checking https://www.IoT-Now.com, https://www.TheEE.ai and https://www.VanillaPlus.com where you'll find more tech news, plus videos, top level interviews, event reviews, and much, much more. And join us again soon for another Trending Tech Podcast looking at enterprise digital transformations. Bye for now.